Jury Questions

[Frags]

Entropy

Next, "the Bad" - Frags

I don't hold any grudge against you. You're a great guy and I honestly would have loved to team up with you to the end. The thing is, pre-merge, I wanted to get rid of you because (aside from the fact that we never had a conversation) I had a feeling you would ditch and join Yang because you were on the same tribe before tribal-switch. But Yin came up with this "CORE" alliance move which I fell in love with so I attempt to clear up matters with you. The next thing I know, ppl are telling me (philotas, drago to name a few) that you are teaming up with Yang and wanted me out post-merge! I still had trust in you so I had C2M voted out instead. The thing is, I still got 4 votes. Yang, C2M, Brennus definitely voted for me. So I was led to believe that the other vote had to be you. Was it? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Did you really vote for C2M the TC before I was ousted like u said or did you vote for me?

Well, first off, let me say that I also have no grudge, these are all games and once the game is over, I hold nothing against anyone. Entropy, you played a very strong game and was very influential to others, once I found out that it was you that had been targeting me, that put you at the top of my list of immediate threats. After Yin told me that he would never vote for you (not a very smart move), that let me know that you two had a F2 pact and neither of you could be trusted as far as my game was to go. With this knowledge, I knew that you two had to be busted up soon and since you were the gamer of the two, I had to focus on you. We had a good plan at the merge since we had the numbers on our side, but when you guys decided to throw all of our advantage to the wind and vote C2M, I had to try another avenue. When C2M was voted out you are correct that I was the other vote for you. We thought that you were gone, but Dragonomine didn't vote with us that time. (Here's another lie that I didn't remember Carol) I lied to you so that I could possibly keep you thinking that I was still with you, allowing me to not be your target the next week and coming up with another plan to oust you.


What's your "real" reason for wanting to rid me? What's the strategy behind it? Why didn't you trust me?

Like I said above, that once I found out from Dragonomine that you were the one that had targeted me, along with your decision to throw away our numbers advantage and knowing that you and Yin had a deal, I couldn't trust you and your influence on others was too great. You had an excellent game going, but the information I found out from both your allies, Dragonomine and Yin, was what did you in as far as my game went. I had to go another route.

[Frags]

Philotas

1) Who do you think I voted for in each post-merge Tribal Council (starting from the Tribal Council C2M was voted off to the one I was voted off), and why do you think I voted that way. Tell me what you know and understand. (All)

TC#9
You voted C2M - Yang, Brennus, C2M and myself were the ones that voted for entropy. I feel that you voted C2M so as to try and gain trust with the other side.

TC#10
I think that you voted entropy - You voted this way this time to try and regain the trust of Yang and myself.

TC#11
I believe that you voted for me here - You voted this way this time just because the majority was going with The Alethiometer and you figured that another stacked vote for me would possibly benefit you later.

TC#12
You voted Brennus - You knew that you were possibly a target and the majority seemed to be voting Brennus, better him than you, thus your vote.

TC#13
I believe you voted Yin this time - That was what we told you to set you up.



4) How could you know for a fact that Brennus voted for me, when now it’s clear that Brennus self-voted in that round? Did you say that to get credits with me, or you didn’t really know for sure but say that anyway? Do you know for a fact now who were the 3 people who voted for me? (Frags only)

When I told you that, I knew that Brennus had self voted. I told you that and found out that Yang also told you that, so we decided to play it up to confuse you and keep you off balance for another week, so that we could get another chance to oust you without you knowing we were going after you. As for the 3 people that voted for you, it was Yang, myself and Carol. I knew that Dragonomine and Yin were voting with Anthony and you, but you had more stacked votes, so in the event of a tie, you would have gone before Brennus.



One more thing for you, Frags. When I was voted out, I initially believed that it was you who pushed the vote, because you seemed upset that I voted against you earlier. Yang tried to take credit of getting me out though. 5) Were you really the one who pushed the vote to go to me? Explain how the consensus arrived at me as the target. (Frags only)

Once the merge happened, Yang and I discussed options each week and worked together to make decisions that would set things up for the next week also. Once we decided who we were going after, we then would look at who we could get to vote with us and begin working on them. I did throw it out, the week that Brennus left, that you needed to go so that Yang and I could have better control of the game, but it was agreed by both of us, so I wouldn't say that it was one or the other as to who would get the credit, it was more or less a combined effort. You were our target when Brennus left and you were still our target the following week.

Philotas, I feel that you played a very good game and that you played both sides to your advantage. By playing both sides, you kept the game in total chaos and that is what made me not trust you. By taking you out, that allowed the game to calm down and become more manageable.

[entropy]

You guys sure ask a lot. LOL Kinda feel sorry for the final 3.


So it was you, Drago! Ha!


Hmm, I was expecting a quick final TC. I mean, in the real show, you wouldn't get the chance to disect all these friggin' details throughout the entire game. The jury'd ask some quick straight-to-the-point questions and they'll answer you with a couple of lines, which they'll be judge on by those answers. I've never seen a final TC where they'd have to write a college-entrance paper or simulate a final 7 skit. TBH, this is messy. Might as well just open a whole session on this game, ha!


The undeniable truth is all those three people up there have played a better game strategically than any of us jurors. That's why they're up there and we're down here. So it'll be ridiculous to even think that someone from the juror would say those three don't deserve to be up there or their game was bullshit... and that one's other game is god-gifted. Frankly, those three, they all lied at one pt or another and they all flipped/betrayed at one or another so I don't see how anyone could make such a bold statement on someone's game like ..."bullshit". Cause the way I see it, Yang had such an enormous alliance pre-game and even after the game started... how he managed not to get to the final three would be considered bullshit strategy on my standards as well. Hey, if anyone one in this jury had such a big alliance pre-game, they could have played the exact same game as Yang did, so WTF? Most people didn't have any alliance coming into this game so they should be given some credit for making it this far.


It seems to me that some jurors will probably vote ppl who were nicest to them - or didn't betray them as they put it. And then you claim that the best strategist should win when actually, you're just brainwashing people to vote with you. I don't really see the difference between how Frags and Drago played in the final 6, nor the difference between betrayal and flipping. Flipping is betraying. Drago played a montrous game and nobody knew about it.

And by insulting Yin's strategy, that even gives him more credit. Because with that kind of "bullshit" strategy you proclaim, he manage to put his arse up there and your's down here. Yin played unique. You can't take credit away from that, only give. And Drago lied a lot, but like I said, I could've trusted my life with her so she was really a good liar. Frags played a decent game as well. But... IMO, it's pretty obvious that Yang is sugarcoating Frag's gameplay. I mean, what's this final vote based on? Someone who played better or someone who was nicest to you (flipped in a nice way?).

I'm not saying we should not vote Frags, but I think that the juror should look at the game on a wider scope, not just because Frags was nice to Yang... and Yang, as cocky and arrogant as he is, is manipulating your votes like how he did the entire game. You should look at how each and one of them outplay and outwit us all - not just how he outplayed and outwitted Yang.

[Frags]

Yang

Finally To Frags: Yang still thinks he would beat you if we were in F2 together, but of the final 4, you played the best game by far. Scroll up to the quote Yang is having dragon defend…and tell Yang why what he said about you is true.

“Frags vs. Dragon....this is the ONLY toss-up that is left, but Yang thinks Frags wins narrowly did better strategically this game by placing himself where he did with Yang. Think of it this way, Dragon agreed to an F2 with Yang and assured him countless times she would not flip.....However, Frags was the F3 and he placed himself in an amazing spot. He was with Yang, which meant he was perfectly blanketed because anyone truly with Yang was invisible since Yang kept making his target bigger. BUT, Frags was on the outside a bit more than Dragon so his flip doesnt look as much like a betrayal like Dragon and seems more like a flip. Dragon was a blatent betrayal, Frags does not look that way. Therefore, Frags placed himself in a position where he could flip on Yang without suffering as much consequence as Dragon in the eyes of the jury. News Flash....that is all Frags needed because he already "one-ups" anyone else in the house so just this gives him ups on Dragon and that means he has a "one-up" on everyone in some degreee.”

Well, as for being in the Finals with you, I'll admit that I think you would beat me in this game also, thus the reason why I had to vote to get you out.

Placing myself with you was all part of my strategy. Like I said earlier, when the merge happened, entropy and I were having our little battle and I felt that I had exposed myself a little too much and I was a too large a target on everyones radar. By hooking up with you allowed me to, as you say, be shielded by you, thus allowing my target on the radars of everyone to dim somewhat so that I wasn't as large of a target. Even though I was being "shielded" by you, I think that you can admit that I was very active in our strategy building week to week and not just hiding behind you. Once we got to the F7, Philotas, Anthony and yourself were the main targets and that is when I started working Dragonomine, Yin and Carol, by telling them that none of us would have a chance in the Finals with any one of you three and that if we all worked together that we could take you all three out and be assured F4. I had a feeling that the Finals would consist of the F3 and I have played enough games to know that the only way to assure yourself a spot in the Finals is to win Immunity, so I busted my ass in the final immunity challenge and it all paid off. I didn't rely on anyone to bring me to the Finals with them.



Explain why you decided to vote Yang out. By the way, Yang saw your flip coming through your actions in the week.

Even though I didn't want you to go the week that you did, I had to vote with the numbers. Your overall game was top notch and I knew, by comparing our games, that going up against you in the Finals wasn't going to give me a very good chance of winning, so I had to vote you out to improve my chances.



Lastly, explain what you think the vote count would be if Yang took Yin’s spot in F3 and it was Yang, Dragon, and yourself. Also, expanding on this question…is there any person you think could have beaten Yang in the finals? If so, who were they? What would the vote count be? And why would they beat Yang?
If you don’t think anyone could have beaten him, tell Yang why you think this is true.

Honestly, I think you played the best game of anyone in this game, that is why I had to vote you out. If you were in the Finals instead of Yin, I think the vote would have been a run away (8-0-0). I honestly don't think that anyone in this game could have beat you in the Finals. You played every aspect of the game as well as anyone I have ever played with, but this was also your downfall, you played too well and everyone knew that you couldn't be beat if you made it to the Finals.

[entropy]

Hey, i was just wondering.

Is there a time limit to the final TC?



I won't be able to read from hereon cause I'll be out of town for the rest of this week.
I'm still indecisive on the three - maybe I have to reimplement Yin's ee-nee-mee-nee-mi-ni-mo strategy. LOL My votes right now would be Drago 35 Frags 33 Yin 32. Think y'all deserve to win! =)

How does this work? Do I PM Jeff?

[Nozuka]

Don't bother wasting a vote on me, I can't win according to yang.. ugh! What a selvloving UGH!

[dragonomine]

~ Yang ~

Once Jason went out…Dragon was hand-picked as his replacement in the alliance. So therefore, Dragon’s first deal was with Yang, not any of you others who claim to have had the first agreement with her. So basically this shows her disloyalty further.

Yang, Dr. Will had ONE conversation with me about you and it was in Episode 3.

DragonOMine: we have a disadvantage the entire game unless you have a LOT of friends in that huge tribe LOL
RustlerWrestler: Well Yang i guess is making plans with me and you and darkking
RustlerWrestler: so thats good
DragonOMine: they aren't voting Yang out? LOL
RustlerWrestler: I guess not
RustlerWrestler: He has some plan with me you nova darking
RustlerWrestler: Says Jason was a part of it but because Jason is gone you can be a part of it
RustlerWrestler: I was all in for that haha
DragonOMine: haaha I'm honored he thought of me LOL
RustlerWrestler: haha
RustlerWrestler: Yang cracks me up
DragonOMine: at this point I'll take all the allies we can get
RustlerWrestler: Exactly

I wasn't asked to be in this alliance. Did it look like I was? I was TOLD since Jason was gone I was to take his place. That's the only conversation Will and I had about you over in the Metnal tribe. So to say I betrayed you from the start isn't the truth. You included me in an alliance and I had never talked to you ever in my life. I don't know what Dr. Will had been telling you about me, but whatever it was was a line of BS. I never trusted Will as I've already told you on several occasions. I flat out told you I would have voted him out as soon as I got the opportunity. He caused a riff between myself and Anthony early on in the game and that was someone I had genuinely liked.


To Dragon: First of all….Yang said this in the jury house…defend yourself against it

“Frags vs. Dragon....this is the ONLY toss-up that is left, but Yang thinks Frags wins narrowly did better strategically this game by placing himself where he did with Yang. Think of it this way, Dragon agreed to an F2 with Yang and assured him countless times she would not flip.....However, Frags was the F3 and he placed himself in an amazing spot. He was with Yang, which meant he was perfectly blanketed because anyone truly with Yang was invisible since Yang kept making his target bigger. BUT, Frags was on the outside a bit more than Dragon so his flip doesnt look as much like a betrayal like Dragon and seems more like a flip. Dragon was a blatent betrayal, Frags does not look that way. Therefore, Frags placed himself in a position where he could flip on Yang without suffering as much consequence as Dragon in the eyes of the jury. News Flash....that is all Frags needed because he already "one-ups" anyone else in the house so just this gives him ups on Dragon and that means he has a "one-up" on everyone in some degreee.”

Basically, why was getting Yang out a good move for you? Yang has said before that getting Yang out only hurts you because with Yang you were guaranteed finals, and you still made finals, but now you gave away the loyalty argument and cannot say you were loyal.

Why do I need to defend myself because of that jury statement? It's the truth. You are more hurt because it was me who took you out of the game. Frags wanted to go for Anthony. Yin and I convinced him it was time for you to go. Yup. It was me.

You said this: Frags was on the outside a bit more than Dragon so his flip doesnt look as much like a betrayal like Dragon and seems more like a flip.

Frags was in the background. He wasn't making decisions. His teeny tiny flip was nothing compared to my betrayal, thus my strategy. That small little statement alone shows me that you're not voting for the strongest strategist. You're voting for the person that hurt you less. And there's nothing wrong with that, it's your choice. But call it what it is. It's a grudge against the sole player that had the balls (do I have balls? ::looks down: to do whatever she had to to win the game.

Voting you out was necessary to get to the finals and WIN. Yes, I would have gotten to the finals with you but you would have swept the votes. Frankly, that's a shitty end. I gave myself the best opportunity I had to win this game.

There's only one person I claimed to be loyal to and that was Yin. Please note the fact that he's sitting here beside me. (or sitting here somewhere in my close proximity)

Feel free to sing Frag's praises to everyone in the jury house, but it was Yin and I that did all the legwork after merge and you never saw it. You remember all those hints I dropped to put doubt in your mind about Anthony, Phil, Brennus and Frags? We're they true? Well, they could have been but I made it up. I kept you leery of everyone but me. I fed you the information I wanted you to know and nothing else. Yin was the only one who knew absolutely everything I did. It was pretty easy for me to remain #1 for you because I knew enough to keep feeding your ego. I'm not a stupid player. I've been doing this for a very long time.

Also, lets say Yang won immunity that week…would you have voted Anthony? And if he won the week after that as well?

No, I would have voted Frags because it was time to vote off someone from my group. (again, keeping the sides even) If Anthony won the next week, you would have gone. If Anthony had won every single immunity challenge after you left he would be In final 3. And so would I.

Lastly Dragon, you keep talking about your deals here and deals there…but were you planning to break the deal with Yang the whole time? Or did you just realize that you could never beat him and thought it was your only shot to win?

As much as this will hurt you, I did say I would be brutally honest. Yes I knew I was going to vote you off. And I knew exactly when I was going to do it. Trust me, you would have been voted off a LOT earlier if I didn't have any pull with Carol and Yin.

I stayed close to Yang until I had the majority vote behind me to get through all the other TCs and I no longer needed Yang. To vote you off before that would mean there would be a shot that I could go home the next day. The round you left was the round I had all my ducks in a row and knew I would make it to the end.

Yang is hard pressed to vote for you since you were blanketed by him the whole time and then vote him out getting rid of your claim to loyalty. Now all you can claim is that you were a spy, plain and simple.

This is Survivor (and it's Survivor: Yucatan, not Survivor: Yang) I't's not Sesame Street where you learn to share and love and all is beautiful with the world. It's a brutal game and I played it to the fullest with the best of my abilities. I played it to get right where I am. Everyone in this game lied and manipulated to get further. If they didn't, they were voted out early and didn't make jury. Or if they all did, the earlier ones didn't have enough cunning to do it right. I did it the best. Yang know I did. And if Yang wants to vote for someone who was "nicer about it?", more power to him. I stand beside everything I did. I won't apologize for it.

[Frags]

Quote from Dragonomine:
"You are more hurt because it was me who took you out of the game. Frags wanted to go for Anthony. Yin and I convinced him it was time for you to go. Yup. It was me.

Whoa, if you'll read my statements, you'll see that I said I had to vote with the numbers, no one convinced me of anything, don't overplay your game, we all know that he was either going to go that round or the next and the order between Yang and Anthony didn't really matter, so don't make it sound like Yang wouldn't have gone if it wasn't for you.


Quote from Dragonomine:
Frags was in the background. He wasn't making decisions.

Haha, oh my little pretty, that statement alone shows that you were in the dark for most of the game.


Quote from entropy:
"it's pretty obvious that Yang is sugarcoating Frag's gameplay. I mean, what's this final vote based on? Someone who played better or someone who was nicest to you (flipped in a nice way?)."

C'mon entropy, you're doing the exact same thing of trying to comvince others vote just like Yang. Let's let people make up their own minds.

I don't need my game sugarcoated as you say and it's funny how I went from being the dirty player to the nicer guy. Just look at the gameplay (ie. strategies, immunities and overall play). My strategy was laid out pretty well allowing me to adapt to the many changes in the game and I made it to the finals pretty much on my own by using people when I needed to for as long as I needed to as well as winning a couple of Immunities along the way. As for my co-finalists games, their reasoning as to why they flipped back and forth doesn't make much sense. I mean if they had so much influence on so many people, then wouldn't it have made a lot more sense to have an alliance and pick everyone else off and not have to face the jury and explain why you flipped so much? So I pretty much view their strategy, or lack thereof as something they had to come up with here at final Tribal Council to try and save face.

[entropy]

Well said.

[dragonomine]

Frags, please respect my answers. I have respected both yours and Yin and haven't commented. In fact I haven't even read 90% of it. Nor will I until voting is over. I'm concerned about my answers. Worry about yours.

I can't comment on your game play because I didn't see it. So prove yourself to the jury and I'll do the same please. Again, I have respected you. I would appreciate the same.

[Anthony]

Yang ... how do you know Nova and Jason self voted? Going into the vote they both got the same number of votes that they were supposed to be getting ... so obviously somebody lied to me [again] or they didn't self vote ... especially on the Jason vote, maybe Nova but I'm pretty sure Jason didn't self vote. Anyway, that's irrelevant, I'll ask my questions.

statsor said:

Don't bother wasting a vote on me, I can't win according to yang.. ugh! What a selvloving UGH!

Wow ... that's a shining example of things "not to say when you are trying to win a game" ... words of a winner? Don't think so. As you're already defeated, I won't bother asking you a question.

Frags & Dragon:

At final 9, Yang was set to go home. Yin told us he was voting with us but obviously we all know it was all part of his masterplan, blah blah blah. Did Yin confirm with either of you beforehand that he was voting the aleth? I was told afterwards that he changed his vote at the last minute because he was scared. Aww. But, did he confirm with you how he was voting? This is just out of curiosity.

Dragon:

Back at Metnal, what were your intentions had we not been seperated? What would have been your bootlist after darkkings boot? I just want to know where I really stood with you at Metnal.

Frags:

You told me it was you who orchestrated Yang's boot. Yin told me it was him. Which was it? Who's idea was it? I'm not interested in who "planted seeds", I want to know who's IDEA Yang's boot was at the final 6. Also, me and you didn't speak ONCE in this game other than before I was voted out and I asked you if you were voting me ... I know communication is a two way street but why did you never make an effort to talk to me? Did you know that you'd never need my vote so you just couldn't be bothered? Please be honest.

That's all I have. Good luck.

[Frags]

Anthony

At final 9, Yang was set to go home. Yin told us he was voting with us but obviously we all know it was all part of his masterplan, blah blah blah. Did Yin confirm with either of you beforehand that he was voting the aleth? I was told afterwards that he changed his vote at the last minute because he was scared. Aww. But, did he confirm with you how he was voting? This is just out of curiosity.

Yin never actually confirmed to me that he was voting Aleth, when I told him that Aleth was the only name that I had heard, he just said "Ok, vote Aleth."



You told me it was you who orchestrated Yang's boot. Yin told me it was him. Which was it? Who's idea was it? I'm not interested in who "planted seeds", I want to know who's IDEA Yang's boot was at the final 6. Also, me and you didn't speak ONCE in this game other than before I was voted out and I asked you if you were voting me ... I know communication is a two way street but why did you never make an effort to talk to me? Did you know that you'd never need my vote so you just couldn't be bothered? Please be honest.

As for Yang's boot, at F8-F7, I organized the F4 pact between Dragonomine, Yin, Carol and myself stating that once Philotas was gone we then needed to take both you and Yang out, but there was no particular order discussed, to me it didn't really matter as long as at F6 and F5 you both were outed. If Yin wants to claim that as a major move for him, then so be it, it really wasn't that big of a deal, it was either you or Yang for those two rounds and the order didn't matter.

Concerning our communication, at the merge when entropy and I were going at it, it appeared as though entropy was working with you, so I figured it was useless to approach you at that point. Once entropy was gone, I had already started working with Yang and as everyone knows, that was about the time that the both of you started battling it out. Since I was working with Yang, you then became a major threat of mine also as it appeared that you were running the show from the opposing side. I believe that this was one of those cases with timing never really allowing the two of us to have an opportunity to either talk or work together. As I viewed the game, both you and Yang were the major players that no one wanted to be in the Finals against, so when it was time for me to make my move, both you and Yang, and Philotas also, were my three major concerns and targets. Your three's games were so good that it was easy for me to get the F4 pact made, to gain the numbers advantage to take the three of you out. You played an impressive game and I would jump at the chance to play alongside you in a future game.

[Nozuka]

You really didn't organize that, myself and dragonomine did.

[Frags]

Ok I guess this PM that I sent you just magically appeared in my outbox! If you look, it was the same day that Brennus was voted out. If need be, I can show you the PM's I sent to Dragonomine and Carol as well.


« Message sent on Feb 28, 2008, 6:27pm »

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Ok, I'm thinking that with Philotas and Yang seeming to be all over the board from week to week, you and I could get Dragon and Carol as a F4 alliance and stay together to vote Anthony, Philotas and Yang out. We have the opportunity to take out the three strongest players while we have the numbers and before they can take us out. I'll wait for your response before going any further, because if you don't want to do it with me, I'm not making that move.

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I think you've been caught in another lie Yin!

Yet another example how you've been making up this so-called strategy of yours!

[Nozuka]

Trust me, Dragon and I had taht plan long before you suggested it. LONG before